[BlackHalo]

Indeed. My standard remark when we go to a pub/club/night out is "who is driving? You? Are you going to party? Then give me your keys, just in case". I don't let my friends drive drunk, ever. I have one friend who i know is going to have a few when we're out, so either i always drive with my car or i take his keys when we get there.

As for the driving-test, ours here works like this:
Your learner-license (which you do at 16 or 17) is purely theory. You are given a multiple choice sheet and you get three hours to answer the question (i finished in 45 minutes though). I think you need like 70% to pass it, which is fairly easy to do.

The actual license-test (which you can only do when 18 and if you have a learner's permit) is just practical. You start on a course where you have to parallel park, do a 3-point turn, pull away on an incline and do an emergency procedure stop (90% of the time you don't even get asked to do this, i didnt have to when i did my test). Then there is the road-portion where you drive for about 20 minutes in traffic or back-streets. This is fairly stupid because you have to do certain things (like a 5-point check, handbrake pullaway, etc). It's stupid because no-one actually stops his car, pulls up the handbrake, puts the car in neutral, does a 5-point check, puts the car into gear, releases the handbrake and drive on. If you pass the road section as well you get your license then you can get into any car and drive on your own.

I've always thought the point-system they use in America is a brilliant idea. Here we have no such thing. You need to truly drive like a maniac and break every single road-law there is to have your license revoked. The penalty system is purely based on fines and arrests.

Edited by BlackHalo, 06 November 2006 - 07:47 AM.

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Well weve been using the point system for at least 40 years here as far as i know, the american test is incredibly easy apparently, my dad took it when he went to work there the guy finished the test early and just gave him his licence and my dad would fail our test in minutes.

Our test is all on the road you have to do all your turns and manoeuvres on the road like you would on your own.

I usually just walk or get a lift if im going out, if im going into the city i take the train.

[warriorscot]

Well weve been using the point system for at least 40 years here as far as i know, the american test is incredibly easy apparently, my dad took it when he went to work there the guy finished the test early and just gave him his licence and my dad would fail our test in minutes.

Our test is all on the road you have to do all your turns and manoeuvres on the road like you would on your own.

I usually just walk or get a lift if im going out, if im going into the city i take the train.

[BlackHalo]

I wish they tested me on how i usually drive heh. Our test is quite difficult to pass. If you make the slightest mistake during it, you are failed immediately, no exceptions. My dad told me when he went for his license way WAY back in the day, the instructor told him to drive normally (like he usually does) to a specific address (which was like a few blocks away), he dropped the instructor off, instructor told him to pick him up in an hour. Turns out it was the instructor's girlfriend's house! An hour later my dad picked him up and he handed my dad his license, lmao. I wish it was that easy these days.

[dsenette]

during my actual drivers test to get the license...i didn't have to parallel park...the tester said and i quote "[bleep]....i can't even parallel park...so why should you be able to?"....

driver's ed was where the real fun came in...my driver's ed teacher (Edgar barilleaux pronounced "Barry-yo") would do all kinds of stuff to distract us...like...he had a pair of sunglasses in the car that were smeared with vaseline...he'd make you drive into the sun...and ask if you wanted to put them on...OR he would fill his zippo lighter and spill fluid on his hands....then light his hands on fire to clean them off

the guy they have doing it now....just wears REALLY short shorts and puts his feet on the dash

[sari]

I have a daughter who is 14-1/2, and counting the days until she can get her learner's permit. My husband and I have already decided that she will not get her license until we have paid to put her through a defensive driving course. There are a few around us that offer specialized instruction in pulling out of a skid, steering in emergency situations, etc. I've read that one of the most common causes of teen accidents is over-correction - they start to run off the road, over-correct, and lose control of the car. She will also be required to drive many miles with us in many circumstances - highway driving, rain, snow, 2 lane roads, etc., until we're comfortable that she knows what she's doing. A number of years ago, there was a young girl in our area who got her driver's license on her 16th birthday (that used to be allowed), was driving home (her parents let her drive home by herself), and got in an accident, in which she died. What a pointless death. We now have a curfew that restricts drivers under the age of 18 from driving between the hours of 11 pm and 5 am, as well as laws that limit the number of young people that are allowed as passengers. Now we need a law that bans the use of cellphones by young drivers (well, it should ban them for everyone, but young drivers would be a start!)

[BlackHalo]

It's an excellent idea to send her for an advanced driving course. Everyone needs to know those skills. I've been driving for about 6 or 7 years now (3 years on my own) and i can handle most situations that come my way on the road. I haven't done a course, but have learned everything first-hand (i've been in quite a few emergency situations). 80% of people on the roads in South Africa CAN NOT drive well. I drive about 50km's each day and every single day i have trouble with someone who plainly does not belong behind a steering-wheel. I learned my emergency driving skills on the highway to university and in some instances on the local roads (we got chased by someone one night, he was driving a 1.6l car and we a 1.3l. That night alone i learned to drive under emergency circumstances and how to handle the car under road-stress). Everyone should be validated on their skill to cope under these circumstances as the chances are VERY good (especially where i live) that you will be needing them.

O, and here we DO have a law that prohibits you from driving while using a cellphone, but most people don't even care about it. Many a time i've seen people drive right past policemen or roadblocks with a cellphone stuck to their ear and the cops just don't do anything. Even worse is seeing policemen drive while talking on the phone (believe me, i see it almost DAILY). How can they expect me to uphold the law when the enforcing officers break it so blatantly?

Edited by BlackHalo, 07 November 2006 - 10:11 AM.

[warriorscot]

I don't think ive ever seen a young driver with a cell phone most of them wouldn't or use a hands free kit(i cant remember when i last bought a phone that didn't come with one). I have though seen a whole tone of 30 and 40 something professional types with phones clamped to their ears. It is illegal here now and they enforced it alot when it was first brought in now its a little less but still there, it just makes people take the extra 20 seconds to plug in the hands free kit or put the phone on speaker instead.

specialized instruction in pulling out of a skid, steering in emergency situations

Thats all covered in lessons and tests here, defensive driving is a requirement and one of the biggest components. We also have a more advanced course for after you pass called pass plus which you can do as an option which covers night driving,motorways and bad weather, its all covered when you learn however some people like to give all those things a try with an instructor before you go out on your own. Depends on your confidence level and how long you have been learning i took about 6 months i wasn't in a rush got plenty of practice at all times and weather and its no problem.

The only other driving courses are the advanced drivers institute but unless you go on the long courses you wont gain much more than what you were taught to do in the first place its mostly for older drivers who have forgotten or just were never taught properly.

Johannesburg sounds like a scary place to drive, worse than than America(and ive been scared out my wits there how you can have accidents on roads like they have i will never know and the speed limit is very low).

I drive my folks car im able to get insured on it because its a company i share it with my mum and since we drive at different times its nice arrangement. Also a very nice car Volvo XC90 2006 model 2.5TDi tis a nice beast also nice to drive something big and visible makes you feel safer and others less inclined to cut you off.

[Sir Grand Funk]

Never read the whole topic however,
me being 17, i'd never want to see 16 and 17 year olds voting. While i spend time watching the political field i represent probably less then 2% of the kids our age that do. The few that do want to vote NDP, which would cause my country (canada) to become poor from thier spending habits and then there are the LARGE amounts of people that would vote on the party that would give them rights on smoking marijuana. Something that i'm afraid will become legalized in the near future. Not only that, we held an election at our school last year.....and the green party one it, with NDP in second. The green party is supposed to be a word of protest against all the polititians, and are not prepared to win an election. It would pose too large of a danger for a country to be run by kids. While i do agree that kids our age need to have a larger voice on whats going on around us, i don't think alowing us to vote is the way for that to happen.
As for drinking, age hasn't really ever stoped anyone
But i'm a strong believer that drinking should be changed to 19 (its 18 here), even though our elders will freely give it to us at my age, I hate to see the people who die from drunk driving during thier graduation day, I can't image dieing on my graduation day.....thats why i prefer to be the D.D.

James

This is exactly why I am against the legalization of marijuana.

[Michael]

Also, i'd give up my chance to vote so that other idoits in my school couldn't

I echo that. I have wanted to vote since about 13, but I don't ever want to see the age at that. Some people take longer to mature (I started shaving at 13). The age is set so that most have reached that level.

[silencedmessage]

I personally do not drink or do drugs as I may have stated earlier in this topic. I will NEVER get into a car with anyone who has had as little as one drink. I have seen first hand what the effects of alcohol are while driving, and also just the effects in general. There is no way I am going to put myself into that danger. I also take it upon myself to prevent people who have been drinking from driving. If only more people would see the reasoning behind that...

I also think that it is an awesome idea of putting restrictions on the size of the engine in the vehicle you drive for a certain amount of time. I do not even like driving, and I actually have yet to get my license. I have had a learner's permit for a little over a year, and I personally feel that I am about ready to start driving on my own, so will take the test very soon. This does not mean that I think I can drive a Jag doing 120 down the freeway. I know my capabilities, and that is a major part of the battle. A huge part of how I got to learn what I can and cannot do is trial and error, but only in a safe environment. Start out somewhere that is a large open area (parking lot for example) and slowly progress from there.

Driver's Education courses in my area just assume that everyone is capable of driving on the roads once they have a permit, and do not even start like that. They throw you out right into the real thing, and to me that will only add to one's ego.

Also, just to play the "Devil's Advocate," how do you think all of these young people driving cars that are just *too* fast. There are not many teenagers who can afford a nice car on their own. If the parents are buying them a car that will go 180mph, then I see that as a HUGE problem. I am not blaming parents completely, there is only so much you can do (as Kat said). If a teenager wants to drive crazy, they will; however, I feel that a lot more of the deaths could have been prevented if the way the kids were taught took on a different approach.

Hope I made sense

[warriorscot]

180mph

There isnt all that many cars that can do that, you couldn't get an under 18 insured on it here, we dont have any legal restriction but you have an insurance restriction, anything over a 1.6 is way beyond your average under 25s budget, most you can usually find people manage at that age is a 2.0 with either parents help or a very good job even then we are talking in the £1500 a year range probably more. Anything higher than that and you are talking 2 or 3 grand a year from a specialist insurer unless you are rich you wont get one here. Insurance must be allot cheaper in the US because most of these large cars i see young folks driving when i go over you wouldn't get insured here.

Its not an uncommon situation where the insurance will cost you more than the car.

I would be against size limiting anyway, it makes sense on motorbikes because of the power to weight ratio and there is much less margin of error on a bike, i dont know about you guys but i never want to go back to driving anything under a 1.4 its just to slow, its much harder to extricate yourself from trouble with so little power it actually requires more skill and experience to drive an underpowered vehicle at times. i think 1.6-1.8 on your average car is about right and what most get, i wouldn't mind a nice 1.8 diesel beastie for myself.

[james_8970]

I don't think the size of the engine should matter, what should is the maximum speed that it'll be able to go. With computer's these days you could have both. People need power in some circumstances, such as towing, i'm 17 and do alot of it, i can't image having a restriction on engine size. But who needs a vehicule that can go over 130km/h, never mind 120m/h! The fastest highway in canada only goes 120km/h, so give people an extra little bit to pass another car, thats all they need. I have friends that go 190km/h in a 80 zone, just because they want to experiment how fast their "new" car can go. Is there any real reason behind this?!

Also warriorscot, the awnser is yes, insurance is as cheap as dirt, and only getting cheaper where i live (central canada). We are having major surpluses every year, I think my parents 50 000$ trunk only costs them.....1000$CND a year to insure. Should be more to take the gas sucking hummers of the road, yes they are getting better but they are still bad.

Next thing is drinking, many people my age don't know how to use an alcoholic beverage responsibly, many getting drunk and then behind the wheel. I'm slowing beating it into them (literally) that its not a good idea. So I'm the D.D. But honestly its time our governments raise the drinking age, I'm sick en tired of watching people die under circumstances that could very easily be prevented. You have no idea how easy it is for a minor to get alcohol from someone thats 18, for many 18 isn't a age that high enough for some to be mature. In my honest opinion, it should be raised to 19 or 21 period. Every year June comes around, and with it grads die from their party's. It's time for changes.
James

[warriorscot]

19 or 21, i couldn't take that would hack me off, its all about education, here there is allot of drinking but not all that much drink driving because people get it hammered into them on TV, radio, newspapers, school don't drink and drive, if you do there is a good chance you will lose your licence first time or get a significant ban.

People don't need legislation they need education, and education works alot more effectively.

[james_8970]

agreed, back in junior high we got it beat into us that drugs were bad, and to always say no. But once we entered high school, we lost all that. Wonder why, considering it'd be just as effective if not more to have it during high school as thats when kids begin making significant changes in their lifestyle that are wrong.
James