[stettybet0]

IOC requests investigation of China's gymnasts

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It's so confusing reading her name as "He"... (no offence meant there, it's just confusing)

But it's really interesting, because rules are rules, they have to be 16 or over. So why? What's wrong with a 14-year old beating everyone else? If she won fair and square, it certainly raises eyebrows because she's "underage".

I say congratulations to a talented gymnast, even if she is underage.

Of course, I'm not saying rules should be ignored, bent, changed, etc...

It's funny how this topic started as a general Olympics discussion, but has quickly boiled down to the Chinese gymnasts and their ages...

---------------------------------

On another note, I watched some Men's BMX racing today, it was really good. Someone from Latvia won the race, and the only Australian was knocked over by somebody else.

I was particularly proud because the Australian got back up and finished the race. His time was 2:19 or something compared to everybody else's sub-40 second times!

*troy was reminded of Cool Runnings...

[Troy]

It's so confusing reading her name as "He"... (no offence meant there, it's just confusing)

But it's really interesting, because rules are rules, they have to be 16 or over. So why? What's wrong with a 14-year old beating everyone else? If she won fair and square, it certainly raises eyebrows because she's "underage".

I say congratulations to a talented gymnast, even if she is underage.

Of course, I'm not saying rules should be ignored, bent, changed, etc...

It's funny how this topic started as a general Olympics discussion, but has quickly boiled down to the Chinese gymnasts and their ages...

---------------------------------

On another note, I watched some Men's BMX racing today, it was really good. Someone from Latvia won the race, and the only Australian was knocked over by somebody else.

I was particularly proud because the Australian got back up and finished the race. His time was 2:19 or something compared to everybody else's sub-40 second times!

*troy was reminded of Cool Runnings...

[stettybet0]

But it's really interesting, because rules are rules, they have to be 16 or over. So why? What's wrong with a 14-year old beating everyone else? If she won fair and square, it certainly raises eyebrows because she's "underage".

It's funny how this topic started as a general Olympics discussion, but has quickly boiled down to the Chinese gymnasts and their ages... rolleyes1.gif

I'm not sure about the rest of the world, but in the US, it's a pretty big deal. I first heard of the Chinese gymnasts possibly being underage from one of the announcers on NBC (the TV corporation with Olympic broadcasting rights in the US). So, it's a very mainstream issue here. I'm pretty sure it's because they were our biggest challenge to gold metals in female gymnastics. If they were not a threat to our metals, I'm sure it would be a much more minor issue in the US (as it is in the rest of the world?).

[Tal]

I concur with stettybet0. If you look at the legal gymnasts that participated you'll see they are mostly very young, many of them around the age of 18. And you are correct, here the age faking issue is practically unheard of.

[dsenette]

I'm not sure about the rest of the world, but in the US, it's a pretty big deal. I first heard of the Chinese gymnasts possibly being underage from one of the announcers on NBC (the TV corporation with Olympic broadcasting rights in the US). So, it's a very mainstream issue here. I'm pretty sure it's because they were our biggest challenge to gold metals in female gymnastics. If they were not a threat to our metals, I'm sure it would be a much more minor issue in the US (as it is in the rest of the world?).

i think this is the biggest shame....if the ages of a team that posed no threat to anyone (especially someone as competitive as the US team) no one would care....it would still be just as illegal and just as horrible for someone to cheat (changing the ages is cheating just like taking steroids or HGH) if they only had one person on their team and that person had no chance of winning a medal...the same attention should be paid no matter what the effect of the cheating could be...

[Tal]

Dave, this is pretty much a global thing so it's not surprising. People don't really care about things that don't concern them directly, it's not just about the Olympics.

[Ltangelic]

But it's really interesting, because rules are rules, they have to be 16 or over. So why? What's wrong with a 14-year old beating everyone else? If she won fair and square, it certainly raises eyebrows because she's "underage".

It's funny how this topic started as a general Olympics discussion, but has quickly boiled down to the Chinese gymnasts and their ages... rolleyes1.gif

I'm not sure about the rest of the world, but in the US, it's a pretty big deal. I first heard of the Chinese gymnasts possibly being underage from one of the announcers on NBC (the TV corporation with Olympic broadcasting rights in the US). So, it's a very mainstream issue here. I'm pretty sure it's because they were our biggest challenge to gold metals in female gymnastics. If they were not a threat to our metals, I'm sure it would be a much more minor issue in the US (as it is in the rest of the world?).

Even if the Chinese girls were to be eligible, they would still be thinner than most American gymnasts. Trust me, I have seen Western girls of the same age as me coming to my school and they were much taller and had bigger build than many of us. Plus they looked much more mature than my friends and I do, I almost thought they were young adults of 21.

Also, there is no solid prove that the girls were underaged, and the evidences that showed them as under-aged could have been mistakes by whoever posted the information. Here's the latest news on the issue:

http://www.usatoday....-gymnasts_N.htm (China offers more papers on gymnasts' ages)

[stettybet0]

Even if the Chinese girls were to be eligible, they would still be thinner than most American gymnasts. Trust me, I have seen Western girls of the same age as me coming to my school and they were much taller and had bigger build than many of us. Plus they looked much more mature than my friends and I do, I almost thought they were young adults of 21.

It's not so much the lack of fat, as the lack of fat in certain locations. Ie. "curves". It is one of the first things which occurs during puberty, which typically takes place in girls between the ages of 9-14. It is nearly unheard of for a girl to not have even begun puberty by 16. He Kexin is supposedly 16 years, nearly 8 months (on September 1st). Jiang Yuyuan is supposedly 16 years, nearly 10 months (on September 1st). No, that just can't be. It's like a 16 year old making a fake ID saying that they are 28. If you are going to fake it, at least make it believable.

Also, there is no solid prove that the girls were underaged, and the evidences that showed them as under-aged could have been mistakes by whoever posted the information.

The proof is in the links others and I have posted. Of course, all of those conflicting documents saying they are underage being "mistakes" is exactly what the Chinese government wants you to believe.

Here's the latest news on the issue:
http://www.usatoday....-gymnasts_N.htm (China offers more papers on gymnasts' ages)

Yes, of course with 5 of their 6 gymnasts under investigation, why would China not "come up with" (forge) more documents agreeing with their cause?

Edited by stettybet0, 25 August 2008 - 10:46 AM.

[zorba the geek]

Bravo Troy!It takes a lot of guts to stand up and give the chiniese girls the credit they deserve!I thank you for that!

stettybet0,seems to me you got a little crusade going on here!Your beef is with the chinese goverment,not with the Chinese gymnasts or the judges!These girls trained just as hard as everyone else did and the performance was faultless,the judges where right in awarding the medals everybody well deserved!Don't take it away from them!If you want,slap some sanctions on china or even better
invade the country and change the regime(only kidding )
Another thing,to say Quote:threat to our medals,what does south africa knows about gymnastics"it's a bit arrogant,but that is just a part of your sparkling personality

So you say,what ever the gymnasts learn when they're 14,they will not do when they're 16,because now they know it's dangerous At what age does the american gymnast starts to train?

What was my "unforgetable moment" of the olympics?Just one that stands out:

Whilest "zapping",i notest the mens polevault finals!There where only a russian and an australian left.
Both men where totally worn and down to the last reserves. The russian missed on his final try,Steve Hooker,the australian had only one try left to clear the vault!You could the the agony in the guy's eyes,it looked like he's got nothing left to give.But let me tell you,when he cleared the vault to take the Gold,i found myself giving him a standing ovation!That goldmedal to him is worth more than the 8 medals Phelps took!Well done Steve Hooker!!

[stettybet0]

Rules are rules, Zorba, and they are there for a reason. As dsenette said, using underage athletes is just as horrible as using steroids or HGH. Just as steroids and HGH give an unfair advantage, so does being underage in gymnastics, for the reasons stated throughout this thread. If you don't agree with the rules, then you should work to change them, not disregard them. My "beef" is with anyone who agrees with the "disregarding the rules is okay if you don't agree with them" mentality.

My mention of South Africa knowing less about judging gymnastics was not my words, but the words of the announcers (and former Olympians) on NBC. South Africa does not have a world class gymnastics program, so their judges are inexperienced and not used to seeing such high quality routines. So, if they see a routine that might be worth a 9, they might go, "Wow, I've never seen anything that good!" and incorrectly award it a 10. Or they might not know to deduct a point for something. I don't see how you see this as arrogance, it's simply the way things are. I don't think anyone would argue that the teams competing (USA, China, Russia, etc.) have much better gymnastics programs and more experienced judges than South Africa.

Same thing with saying "our metals". What else am I supposed to say? "The metals that the United States won at the Olympic games"? Give me a break.

Also, a tip: Put spaces after your punctuation. It is difficult to read what you write when you don't.

Edited by stettybet0, 25 August 2008 - 01:31 PM.

[sari]

Back to your corners, everyone. I'm not sure this discussion is really getting anywhere at this point. I honestly don't think we'll ever get the true story behind the girls' ages, and I doubt everyone would ever agree that we'd gotten the full story. Ltangelic understandably feels pride in her country's performance, both in the sporting events themselves and for the overall job China did in hosting the Olympics. I'm personally disturbed by any allegations of cheating, whether it's possibly changing the ages of athletes, or doping to improve performance. Cheating is cheating, no matter how it's done. Although I have my doubts about the ages of these girls, until there's a hard and fast test that can absolutely prove their ages, there's nothing we can do to alter the outcome.

My only other comment:

Medal: 1. a flat piece of metal, often a disk but sometimes a cross, star, or other form, usually bearing an inscription or design, issued to commemorate a person, action, or event, or given as a reward for bravery, merit, or the like: a gold medal for the best swimmer.

Metal: 1. any of a class of elementary substances, as gold, silver, or copper, all of which are crystalline when solid and many of which are characterized by opacity, ductility, conductivity, and a unique luster when freshly fractured.

The medals awarded at the Olympics are made of metal - gold, silver, and bronze.

[zorba the geek]

I'm not sure about the rest of the world, but in the US, it's a pretty big deal. I first heard of the Chinese gymnasts possibly being underage from one of the announcers on NBC (the TV corporation with Olympic broadcasting rights in the US). So, it's a very mainstream issue here. I'm pretty sure it's because they were our biggest challenge to gold metals in female gymnastics. If they were not a threat to our metals, I'm sure it would be a much more minor issue in the US (as it is in the rest of the world?).

All medals are up for graps,there not yours by default!
Those girls did what the goverment asked them to,go and win! I believe there is a big difference between taking performance enhancing drugs and being ordered by your goverment to participate, even if you're under age! Can you refuse?

I believe that the whole meaning of the olympic games has been forgotten over the years! Now anybody with a grudge against anything uses the games as a platform for boycotts,violence,political or other gains! Being on top of the medals list has become a status(power)symbol for goverments and athletes alike,and to get there by any means (cheating/doping)possible!

Sari you're right,there is nothing we can do about it(short of the options i gave stettybet0)!

I've been running marathons for 30 years,i detest any form of cheating or unfair play,i hate any athlete taking PED's and find him/her a disgrace to the sport! But i will say it again,the girls trained very hard and performed well,leave them alone!


Btw : Quote"Also, a tip: Put spaces after your punctuation. It is difficult to read what you write when you don't."
Nice little jab,stettybet0! Like i said,your sparkling personality!

Cheers
zorba

[dsenette]

alright we're done....it's apparent that this is just going to turn into an argument